I had left an offline message for the creator of the Elf Clan group. I asked Wayfinder Wishbringer if Eren was his employee, and if so, I wished to lodge a complaint.
His response:
[23:48] Wayfinder Wishbringer: Katt, I am fully aware of the dealings between you and Eren and as Founder of Elf Clan I have about the same postion toward you as you, as Founder of your paper had toward Eren: I know how to deal with people like you. Bite me and take your piddling, immature, drama-queen attitude elswhere. I came online just to deal with this matter. Consider it dealt.
[23:49] Wayfinder Wishbringer: You were contacted by an advertiser with concern over an advertising issue. Your response was threatening, insulting and abusive. Elf Clan shall have no further dealings with the Messenger. That is MY decision. End of discussion.
In reading the e-mails by Eren, I was struck by the similarities between Eren and Wayfinder’s writing style and word choice, as well as the fact that we had had the same exact problems with Wayfinder in the past. When I got these IMs from him, I was convinced. I let him know about the “Spoonful of Sugar” post.
His reply? [23:54] Wayfinder Wishbringer: Very well.. now it gets legal
I simply replied that it sounded fun. Sorry, I am not intimidated by threats. I’m sure that was frustrating for him, as he typed in a rather lengthy reply:
[23:57] Wayfinder Wishbringer: You broke the first rule of journalism: never take personal issues public. This was a private business matter. You took it public. You think you’re the only person with a blog? We are a group. You’re supposed to be a professional paper. I assure you Ms. Kongo, I am just as capable of writing an article as you… but you have the disadvantage of being a professional paper looking like an idiot.
[23:58] Wayfinder Wishbringer: So if this is how you wish to do things, I’m going to handle the matter very simply… by publishing the fact that a supposedly professional newspaper took a personal snit public. Enjoy your evening.
And then my reply:
It was not a personal snit. It was an attack on us, followed by an empty threat, led by YOU, who was using an alt to deal with us instead of your main, because we have had exactly these problems with you in the past. The blog is where I express the OPINIONS I keep out of the factual accountings in the newspaper. Don’t tell me about the rules of journalism. I know them far better than you ever will.
As I said, I’m not involved in any of the Elven communities. Really, the only thing I know about them is that the sims are some of the most beautiful ones in Second Life. But apparently, one of the sims we have covered previously is one in direct competition with the Elf Clan.
I guess Eren isn’t content to slur only the M2:
One more response Phoenix, then I’m going to let you folks go your way and we’ll go ours, and good riddance. The only turmoil caused within Elf Clan… has been directly from Elf Circle. It resulted in the founder of Elf Circle being banned from our group for misappropriation of group funds and lands, and several of their officers receiving the same treatment. If you folks were the reporters you claimed to be… you’d be aware of that.
Elf Clan now is one of the largest fantasy groups on Second Life. We’ve grown from one to eight sims in one year and we are known for our friendliness to visitors and SL newbies. Our group is also one of the most harmonious, peaceful and drama-free groups I’ve come across on Second Life. The only reason we have ever had any turmoil in the group… was from dealing with people like you and Katt. And that’s the bottom-line truth.
Drama free? I doubt that…
Posted by Wayfinder Wishbringer on July 10, 2008 at 8:32 am
Katt I have one question for you: what do you, as a supposedly professional journalist, hope to gain by airing your dirty laundry in public? My responses to you were following your very abusive, insulting and threatening responses to Eren… responses that you interestingly chose to not publish here (as you chose to not include in your other blog directly addressing this issue).
In my personal, frank opinion, you are a biased, drama-prone sham of an editor who in typical fashion, rather than either dealing with a matter in a professional manner or failing that, personally, feels it necessary to take something public in order to gain as many sympathy votes as possible. As is typical with such, you misrepresent, you omit, and you bias in favor of your story– as incredibly slanted as it is.
My responses to you were as you deserved. I deal honorably with honorably people. With dishonorable and abusive people, I kick them where they deserve. I think in these immature, unprofessional snit posts, you’ve proven that response to be justified.
Posted by secondnature on July 10, 2008 at 5:52 pm
My e-mails were not abusive, insulting or threatening. You keep saying that, and that I changed the e-mails. Prove it. I’m not seeking any sympathy. *laughs* I think many people know the kind of person you are.
I didn’t omit a single thing. And I too will not let abusive people get away with it. You are as abusive a person I have ever met. Continue to threaten me in your e-mails and IMs. It doesn’t scare me.
Posted by Wayfinder Wishbringer on July 10, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Ms. Kongo apparently you receive some kind of twisted power kick out of using your position as publisher of the Metaverse Messenger to throw our weight around. This is evidenced by the fact that (and I repeat) you found it necessary to bring a personal business issue to a public snit blog. No professional takes such measures to handle personal issues with customers.
Despite your claims in the above post, you have only presented my responses to your abusive emails… and as of this post omitted your responses entirely (of course, that can change with a simple blog edit as you have evidenced elswhere). You have claimed innocence in such matters and openly challenged me to produce a sample of such abuse. Ordindarily I don’t present private emails on public forms… but your unprofessional activities in this case warrant such. So according to your demands…
Message to Eren Padar, 7-10-2008, 12:38am:
“One last thing, I assure you that I have absolutely no reservations in telling the entire SL community what a disdainful, disparaging, mean, hateful and rude person you are.”
That lady, is a direct threat. It is unprofessional and unbusinesslike. Up t that point, your message had been factual and pointed. But when you cross the line between stating your opinion and direct threat against a customer, that enters into an entirely different realm.
Had this been a threat from a normal SL user, this would have been negligible. But the fact that you are lead publisher of a major SL news zine puts this into a category beyond personal snit and drama. “…the ENTIRE SL COMMUNITY”. That is an unmistakable threat to use your position to intentionally harass your customer. How do you find this to be professional or acceptable in any manner. Yet you are surprised at negative response to such message?
You followed up with the following:
Message to Eren Padar 7-10-2008 1:06am
“I have been in the business world a long time, and I know just how to deal with people like you. You think that you can threaten us and accuse us in order to get additional advertising. It doesn’t work that way. You can’t treat people like shit and expect to win them over. Yes, you do have every right to contact us regarding problems. You have no right to be a jerk, to accuse us of favoritism or to suggest that we altered your ad. I did not ever threaten you. That you took it that way says a lot about your person.”
This is far from any kind of professional desire to solve a problem. This is abusive and inflamnatory. You were at no time threatened by Eren (I do have copies of the emails). There was no desire to gain additional advertising (as was explained to Phoenix). Apparently however long you have been in business, you do not “know just how to deal with people” at all. If you did you would have attempted to defuse the situation rather than throwing gas on the fire. Then instead of being satisfied with your email rants, for some unfathomnable reason you find it necessary to bring your personal snit public? What is that exactly, some kind of warped vengeance tactic? How trite.
I dealt with you in exactly the same manner that you dealt in your emails… and warned you that following through with your iron-glove threats would be dealt with in like manner. I am not claiming I dealt with you as I should have. It was 1 am, I was tired and in no mood for such offensive attitude. We both could have acted with more honor. But one thing I didn’t do was bring my personal snit to a public blog page. I have to wonder about the base motive for such actions.
You have intentionally sought to make me look like the heavy here. As far as I can see, the drama appears to be coming from your end, not mine. I dealt with you directly and factually, as you set the pattern with Eren. I role play an Elf lady; when you attack me or one of my people, I draw a sword. What exactly did you expect, to rant and storm and insult and threaten and everyone is just supposed to stand by and not react in any form? Again, you really don’t know how to deal with people.
But on a RL level… you are supposed to be a professional. Unlike your co-publisher Phoenix (who dealt with us quite professionally, only to have you destroy his efforts), I see no desire on your part to mend things. Had you let this lie, it would have simply died out as the personal email snit it was. Instead you bring it to a public smear blog? You have got to be kidding.
I am sorry initial emails from Eren hurt your feelings and for what it’s worth, apologize for such. But your business partner had already handled such and had fixed the problem. You totally negated all his efforts. You are surely no injured party that the big, bad Wayfinder is persecuting. I’m sorry, all I see here is a business owner throwing one whallop of a public tantrum.
Posted by Moonstruck on July 17, 2008 at 1:40 am
Hi Katt! I stumbled across your blog while looking up the m2 on the net and I must say what an awesome blog entry, it’s like an RL OP/ED piece, nice and heated. Ok first off Katt you are soooooo wrong on this issue. LOL. Elf Circle officers have written an article about their group and its activities EVERY SINGLE WEEK for the past year in your news paper. Hehe. Vanilla Jessop and Drfranbabcock have written the Eledwhen wonders column (about Elf Circle) since I started reading your magazine and that seems AGES ago (ok only a year or so but that’s long in SL time!). As far as I can tell, the group Elf Circle gets more coverage in your paper then any other group in any genre including business, fashion, etc. So whether or not m2 is biased/slanted isn’t event a question . For fun check out these issues of the M2 and count how many times the group Elf Circle is referred to:
M2 Issue June 24 pg 26
M2 Issue June 17 pg 27
M2 Issue June 10 pg 26
M2 Issue June 3 pg 26
M2 Issue May 20 pg 27
M2 Issue May 13 pg 27
Of course the list is a lot longer then that, going back for almost a year but ya get the picture . Anyways, I understand that since it’s Elf Circle officers that write the column (Drfran Babcock and Vanilla Jessop) that appears in your paper, and they have a financial stake in the groups success (ie land rentals and such) it’s not surprising in the least that the paper is biased, and in truth I don’t mind that it is. EC is a big group and lots of stuff happens there. But imho the articles have become boring and repetitive. The same old “Vanilla and I visited this beautiful EC sim today) article format is no longer interesting. I wish M2 would get away from the EC propaganda model and start reporting more on the fantasy community at large. I mean some huge issues have been happening in the fantasy community and they’ve gone completely unwritten about.
Ok I’ve spent a lot of time on the bias issue so let me address Eren’s original complaint. He complained that his group’s advertisement the M2 turned out to be much lower quality then the picture he sent (which if true he would have every right to complain, even to ask for his money back I would think). So was his group’s advertisement of lesser quality then what he sent? “I compared the ad that ran in the M2 versus the ad you sent. Yes, there is a remarkable difference” – Katt
Hehe. You just admitted that Eren was right Katt??? LOL. I realize that you go on to rationalize it by saying that all advertisements submitted come out of lesser quality then they were submitted. If that’s the case, then you are ethically obligated to inform potential advertisers of the reduction in quality before they rent ad space in your magazine. A simple explanation of this in the future could prevent complaints of this nature. Bottom-line is that Eren complained his ad was lower quality then what he sent and you admitted it was. He should have gotten a full refund. Of course “quality” is subjective so I took a look for myself at the July 8th issue, found the market advertisement, and sure enough the words on the left are blurred and unreadable.
Here are some suggestions on how to proceed. First off the M2 staff should start by researching say the top 10 fantasy groups in SL. Including other aspects of the elven community besides Elf Circle. Second you really owe Eren an apology on this one Katt. Posting a business matter like this on the web is unethical and poor business practice as Wayfinder and Eren have said (albeit, interesting to read). Also perhaps you could hire some additional writers that are more familiar with the current trends in the Elven community.
Anyways, I can’t wait to see how this issue turns out, and keep up the awesome blog Katt!
P.S. I hope you post the inside scoop on the SLCC08 here!
- Moon
Posted by secondnature on July 30, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Hiya, Moon. Thanks for your comments. Since you were so respectful, I’m delighted to read what you wrote. You made some good points, but they were made from the vantage point of someone not very familiar with the M2. Let me explain.
The Elf Circle gets more press because my Elven staff writers are members of that group. I guess you could accuse them of being biased, but I prefer to think they simply write what they know.
Additionally, the members of other Elven groups are more than welcome to send in press releases (there are even blurbs in the paper telling readers how to do this). None of them ever have.
I would also point out that prior to the employment of Vanilla Jessop and Drfran Babcock, there was absolutely NO news on the Elven community. If you flip through the issues prior to their employment with the M2, you’ll see tons and tons of ads stating that WE ARE HIRING writers for the Elven, vampire, furry and Gor communities.
Vanilla and Fran were the only ones to apply. Members of Wayfinder’s group could have applied; in fact, Wayfinder himself could have written articles for the M2. I daresay the apparent bias would have then been against Elf Circle.
One final point on this subject: Fran had an interview scheduled with Eren so that she could write an article on his new Elven sim. When this happened, HE canceled the interview.
Regarding Eren’s original complaint: Yes, there was a remarkable difference. No, there was not a significant difference in the QUALITY. Words were still highly visible, the picture was intact, the ad was still attractive.
You wrote, “If that’s the case, then you are ethically obligated to inform potential advertisers of the reduction in quality before they rent ad space in your magazine.”
We actually do that. On the M2 website, in the advertising section, it’s stated, “Most ads are designed to be printed out on a paper product, but publishing such ads electronically will make them look lighter, brighter, and sometimes washed out.”
Furthermore, Eren (aka Wayfinder) has advertised with us before. On that occasion, he also complained about the quality of his ad. Now, here is an important point. Knowing how any ad submitted would come out, and knowing that he would not be happy with the end result, why then did he choose to advertise with the M2 again?
We really work hard to please our advertising clients. I try to rotate the ads, so that no one will consistently be at the back of the paper. I try to make sure that no ads selling similar products are on the same page. And I try to make sure that copy touches all ads, so that the readers’ eyes will be drawn there.
But there are some things I cannot do anything about, and the end quality of ads is one of them.
When I mess up, I admit it. And yes, refunds are given many times. Wayfinder’s case did not warrant a refund. He had advertised with us before, was unhappy with the quality, got a refund then, chose to come back to advertise with us, and again claimed to be dissatisfied. No refund.
I do not owe Eren/Wayfinder anything. He tried to bully Phoenix, and I am simply not going to allow someone to do that. Furthermore, this blog is separate from the M2. This is not a piece of journalism. The words here are SIMPLY my opinion, and it’s my opinion that Wayfinder should have tried wording his issues in a more polite fashion. Doing so would have gotten him much further, and I feel sure that we could have worked this out to his satisfaction.
But as soon as he accused us of favoritism, and then insulted us by going so far as to say that we deliberately altered his ad, all offers of assistance to him were ended.
Posted by Finnella on July 30, 2008 at 10:47 pm
After many years of dealing with the public, I have learned that the customer is not always right. When the customer is rude, abusive, completely unreasonable and/or dishonest, a business has to decide to cut its losses. I can’t blame Ms. Kongo at all for reaching such a conclusion in this instance.
I find it interesting that the people or person attacking Ms. Kongo have forgotten when Eledwhen Wonders did an interview with Mr. Wishbringer. The piece was flattering and steered clear of any controversy about the split between Elf Clan and Elf Circle. Elf Clan could have sought out additional coverage but apparently chose not to do so.
But what I find most interesting is that Eren Padar took it as a threat that his outrageously rude behavior would become known. I’ve been in SL for over a year and have been threatened. I do not understand how it would be threatening to have one’s poor behavior made known. It is a great shame that this individual acts in a way that is only tolerable coming from a person under the age of five years. But that is his choice and there is nothing wrong with his having to live with the consequences.
As part of my definition of honor, I would include accepting the consequences of my own actions. But then, that is my opinion.